DarrenBarefoot.com

I agree - couping an energetic dog up all day is not good. There are, however, alternatives too, since a lot of people love their dogs (I know… I know… if they love them, let them go ecetera…). Hopefully more will start using “doggy daycares” where they are taken outside every day to run, play, frolic and sniff as much… uh… grass as their noses need. http://www.raincitydogs.com/daycare.htm for Vancouver and http://www.clubdog.ca/index.html for Victoria

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hello — i am a student (off for the summer) and have a 45lb border collie/samoyed cross living with me in my bachelor apartment. while i know there are exceptions to every rule (and many, many poor dog owners spoiling it for the rest of us), i feel your blanket statements are incorrect on several points…

1. “Dogs require space.” — true, i don’t have a backyard, but i do have access to kits dog beach, spanish banks, the endowment lands and several other parks that are much larger than any backyard i’ve ever seen. we go to at least one of these for a couple hours every day, not including other regular walks.

2. “Dogs are social animals.” — while leaving a dog home alone all day sounds cruel, i’m not sure how much better leaving it in a backyard all day is. there isn’t any more social stimulation in a backyard, unless you’re also suggesting that “People Who Only Own One Dog are Lousy Dog Owners”.

3. “A dog deserves a yard to be in and social interaction.” — a dog isn’t going to necessarily get anymore exercise alone in a backyard than alone in a house or apartment. and where is the social interaction coming from? squirrels and birds? my point is that just having a house isn’t going to accomplish both of these things on its’ own.

4. “If you opt to live in the city in an apartment, you gain certain benefits and give up certain privileges.” — if you are financially restricted to living in the city in an apartment, i don’t think you should be penalized. the fact that you live in an apartment should not be a restriction from the companionship and other immense benefits of owning a dog. not having time to take care of your dog should be.

and finally: “Apartment Dwellers are Lousy Dog Owners” is a *hugely* generalized statement. shoving your dog in a backyard just because you can afford one doesn’t make you a good dog owner.

i think the title of this post should be “People That Have No Time for Their Dogs are Lousy Dog Owners”.

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mike Reply:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:04 pm

Jen you are the bomb, I want you on my side when I confront The(THS)of all the wrongs that the humane society are not telling the public.I had the pleasure of working at, just before the union came in. At that point the (ths) had felt that getting rid of all the paid workers would not make the union as strong as it would be,that’s a hole new topic,lol.As far as Darren and his narrow minded attitude goes towards people that live in apartment’s (how rude and judjementle can one be . I am personaly a dog lover,owner and reside in a apartment at this present time I own a lab who gets more walks then the anything else, not all people that live in aparments forget that there furry family member needs more attention then one can give doesn’t have anything to do about the size of the animal ,don’t forget about the owner that owns a shitzu, who lives in a house, who work’s all day long, then comes home for a couple hours then goes out to the bar for the remaining 4 hour’s of the day.how narrow minded can one man be give your head a shake Darren

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Jen: You’re entirely right that my post most criticizes those who don’t have enough time for their dogs. Unfortunately, those are also likely to be people in apartments:

1. Statistically speaking, people in urban areas spend less time in their homes. That’s a major reason for living downtown–so that they can take advantage of what the city offers. This implies that less time is spent with an animal.

2. Per capita, there are less people living in an apartment than a house. This increases the duration and frequency of a dog’s alone time.

3. Being in a yard gives the dog an opportunity to exercise during the day. That’s an option they don’t have in an apartment. Also, I wouldn’t underestimate the amount of stimulation in an outdoors environment. Dogs chase or respond to not only squirrels and birds, but also the neighbour’s cat, the postman, etc. If a dog gets up and runs around the yard five times during the day to chase something, that’s five times more exercise that it’s getting in an apartment.

4. Two dogs are definitely better than one from a social perspective. However, because of their size, apartments tend to discourage the ownership of multiple animals.

This leads to one conclusion: apartments aren’t the best place for dogs. I’m sure that you and many other pet owners are very responsible and exercise and socialize your dog as recommended. However, we all know that many dog owners are not responsible, and that irresponsibility is exacerbated in an urban setting. The average person living in an average-size apartment with an average dog gets you one thing: a sub-standard life for the dog.

Simply put, I don’t think pet owners should compromise the life a dog deserves for their own benefit. Does that mean I think you should only own a dog if you live in the suburbs or the country and can spend most of the day with it? Absolutely.

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I never argued that you shouldn’t walk your dog if you’ve got a yard, nor that you shouldn’t bring it inside. I just stated that a dog, even by itself, is going to receive more exercise in a yard than an apartment. In fact, the quotes you provide (”letting your dog out to the backyard is not enough”) imply that a dog gets some exercise from being alone in a yard. More, obviously, than the near-zero exercise it will get in an apartment.

Saying that “good dog owners enrich the life of their pets, giving them the ‘life they deserve’, in any amount of space” isn’t necessarily true. The articles I cited in my original posting argue that only a minority of breeds are appropriate for apartments. Clearly, if these articles are accurate, a “good dog owner” wouldn’t put an inappropriate breed in an apartment.

Additionally, we don’t agree “that responsible dog ownership is about the time and not the amount of space available”. I don’t know much about raising dogs, so I’m depending on the experts. Those articles I cited (and I’m happy to locate others, if those aren’t authoritative) state that only some breeds should be kept in apartments. So, clearly responsible dog ownership is also about the space available.

Unfortunately, most dog owners aren’t “good dog owners”–they’re average dog owners. And, for every good dog owner, there’s a bad one. If only good dog owners had dogs in apartments, I’d be less concerned. However, apartments exacerbate the impact of a less-than-good dog owner on their dog.

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I hope that every prospective dog owner does enough research to “dog owner choose the best dog for their personal situation, based on space & time available, cost of food & grooming and potential health problems with some purebreds that are more likely than not to result in some hefty vet bills.” Given the number of medium and large-sized dogs that live in my urban neighbourhood, I don’t think they are.

As with most things, I’m not worried about the responsible people–I’m worried about the majority of folks who don’t do enough research, don’t think through their purchasing decision and end up neglecting or abusing their pet.

And don’t get me started on dog attacks, regardless of their location. They’re just another example of irresponsible ownership.

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“‘ve seen my dog become out of breath when they run around and play in my small bachelor space. i would never claim that is enough exercise. “some” exercise isn’t enough.”

Where did I state that some is enough? You haven’t refuted my argument that a dog receives considerably more exercise alone in a yard than alone in an apartment. Are you going to?

“”experts” is a pretty subjective term. i think you might be hard-pressed to find an established dog authority that condemns ALL medium-large breed dogs in apartments under ALL circumstances. i can look up “expert” opinions on my own time. this entire post is basically YOUR opinion and your opinions are the reason i come to this site in the first place. you can correct me if i’m wrong, but i don’t think this topic would have come up if you hadn’t made some personal observations of dog owners in YOUR neighbourhood. i’m just calling your opinion one-sided.”

We can agree on some experts if you like. Unfortunately, pretty much everyone who writes about dogs advocates dog ownership, owns a dog business or publication, etc. and therefore is hardly an unbiased source.

A well-formed opinion is based on facts. Indeed, I did make some observations about my neighbourhood. Then I went and read about dog ownership in apartments. Then I thought about, and came up with my aforementioned thesis.

“if apartments are so bad for dogs, why do reputable vancouver dog websites (http://vandog.ca/lodging.htm) and pet supply stores (ie: bosley’s on davie st) post lists of “dog-friendly” rental buildings?”

Since when was commerce an argument for morality? Cigarettes are bad for us, but websites and stores still advertise them.

“i agree with (the other) jen and feel that your original post was lacking this “disclaimer”. “People who live in apartments shouldn’t own dogs. Period.” is a pretty strong statement. i think i would still call it over-stated.”

I think I’ve clearly proven that apartments are less suitable than houses for dogs. Furthermore, I’ve proven that the majority of dog owners are of average responsibility or less. Lastly, I’ve proven that the majority of dog species aren’t suitable for apartment living.

From these statements, I think “people who live in apartments shouldn’t own dogs” is a safe conclusion to draw. Anything else fails to indemnify dogs against harm.

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I’ll leave it at that, with the exception of one rhetorical point:

“i appreciate your well-(in?)formed opinion. i don’t think an opposing opinion based on experience (ie: mine) is any less informed or valid.”

It wasn’t my intent to lessen or invalidate your (or anybody else’s) opinion. Mostly (and neither of us was doing this) it irks me when people hide behind the phrase “it’s just an opinion”, as if that implicitly justifies any position imaginable.

I would argue that, generally speaking, an opinion based on facts does beat an experience based on experience. Consider the following thought experiment:

Person A: “I walk around Detroit all the time and never get mugged. Therefore, Detroit is a safe city.”

Person B: “Statistics show that Detroit is the most crime-ridden metropolis in the US. Detroit is an unsafe city.”

Which of these is more correct?

Now, in our case, I haven’t really provided enough imperical evidence from experts to have a ironclad fact-based opinion. However, generally, I’m going to believe the experts’ facts (note the placement of the apostrophe, as corrobation is important) over anecdotal experience. Soon enough this is going to devolve into a debate about faith and the existence of God, so I’ll quit now.

As in most debates, we’re not going to change each other’s minds. Thanks for the healthy discussion, and I hope you and your pet a long and healthy relationship.

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Hi Darren - I must admit I only skimmed the last couple of comments, so maybe this was already brought up. Dogs should never be left alone outside in your yard, regardless of where you live, or how secure your fence is. Many dogs get tangled on their runs or get their collars caught on things and choke to death. Also, dog theft is rampant everywhere. My parents had two dogs stolen from their very secure yard and they were never recovered. An interesting site to check out is: http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com

My lab and I lived in an apartment for a year, but only because I knew it was a temporary situation, and we were still able to walk out our back door and be in the woods. Now we live in the country on 22 acres and it’s much better for her. That said, I would make an educated guess that many apartment dogs are better cared for than country dogs. Dogs in the country are often tied up and neglected because their owners are not forced to take them out for regular exercise. Sadly.

I do have to agree with Jen when she said that a dog in the yard will get bored, too. Dogs are pack animals and therefore are social and NEED to be with their people (which was your original point). It all comes down to responsible pet ownership.

Thanks for providing interesting reading!!

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I also think the blanket statement of no dogs in apartment’s is unfair. I am an apartment dweller with a dog, a beagle, and he is one happy puppy. My dog interacts with countless other dogs during the day in an urban, dog friendly neighborhood. On his walks and visits to the nearby parks. He spends his time alone often sunning near a window watching all the action outside. My dog would be very unhappy tied up alone in a back yard. In additon, we have Beau brought on group outings twice a week, where he runs free with other dogs for the majority of the day.

In short, it’s all about the care the owner offers the dog, and not entirely about the locale.

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Crazy blanketed statements! Having been raised in an apartment, my dog is so well adjusted and well socialized. Many back yard dogs end up agressive when the owners depends on the yard to take care of the dog. Dogs need more than a back yard. When taking my dog to the local dog park… He and I are exposed to many personalities and wonderful friendships…. Can’t get that in the back yard.

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I just wanted to say that I totally disagree with the statement that a dog gets more exercise when you have a backyard. I know from experience that that statement is very far from the truth. When I put my golden retriever outside, all he does is lay down on the deck and wait for us to open the door, so he can come back inside. He has no interest in anything outside, unless we are out there with him running around…so I can’t see how he’d get more exercise being by himself over a dog that lives in an apartment and goes for daily walks. I think any dog can live a happy life in an apartment, as long as it gets it’s daily exercise and social time. And like someone else said, good and bad dog owners live everywhere, not just in apartments. I have seen endless numbers of dogs chained up to porches on hot summer days…and I can’t help but think that the dogs with air conditioning in apartment buildings are having the times of their lives.

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well, this just seems to be a case of common sense, opinion and personal experience. To say that you can’t have a dog if you live in an apartment is just a comment from an coutry boy (I can say this as I am from the country myself) believing that their way of living is the best/only way of living. I mean, I have known people who believe that life in general is better in the country and that the country is the best place to bring up children; however, many people who have been brought up living in the city would strongly disagree. It is just a matter of life style, all dogs are different, and to say that it is cruel to keep a dog just because you don’t have a garden is just ignorant and people who insist on projecting their own opinions as fact, especially when this is very offensive to a great number of people, just annoy me and should probably stop having opinions before they start voting BNP.

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What right do you have to judge ppl who have dogs and live in apts?? i have 2 dogs and they get tones of social stimulation.They have eachother as well as myself and my boyfriend.We have made it possible for our lovable dogs to always have someone around and they get outside at least 4 times a day.
my boyfriend works days and i work nights so when he leaves i am getting home an hour later.our dogs are very spoiled and they are happy,cuddle dogs.so why don’t you think before you start shooting your mouth about something you obviously know f&#k all about!!!

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PS. Check your sources. Most dog ‘experts’ are not experts are all. A lot of dog trainers who know anything would actually agree that quality time spent with a dog–by that, not just exercise, but lots of mental stimulation–is more important.

Fact is, most people shouldn’t own dogs, period. It’s not the apartment living that makes monsters out of dog owners; it’s just that it’s more noticeable, since there isn’t anything else to cover up their mistakes. A dog that has an owner and a yard isn’t necessarily happy and healthy either, judging from the amounts of people who just leave their dogs in the yard and think that’s enough for them. I’ve seen hobos with happier dogs.

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impressive that two years later people still feel compelled to dispute this.

luckily, the majority of the comments already posted have done my fighting for me, had they not i may have written a novel as the broad statement made in the original post angered me to the core.

one thing i didn’t spot was a rebuttal to Darren’s insinuation that small dogs don’t need much space, but certainly the bigger the dog the more exercise space is needed. Frankly, my miniature schnauzer, Oliver, needs to be run down daily. His small size gives him a high anaerobic recovery and his energy just doesn’t stop. A walk around a block or two is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to his exercise regime. Conversely, my uncle has a Great Dane, a giant among any breed. He prefers to lay around most of the day, as his huge size (194 lbs and not obese) and large heart keep him from wanting much of an aerobic workout. He is the perfect apartment dweller.

I really wonder, Darren, if you even own a dog. God save the little mongrel if you do.

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It’s great you have an opinion, but you really made a terrible, huge assumption about everyone who owns dogs lives in apartments and basically said we are all horrible. I recently moved from a house to an apartment due to a job/location change, and I must say my dog gets so much more exercise now. Before, I had a back yard, so if I was in a rush, I could put her back there for a while, and make sure she got her business done, and her walks could be shortened, etc…
When moving into the apartment, I made sure there was plenty of places for her to be taken, and she goes out 4 times a day, once of which is an hour+ long walk, that is 1.5 miles in each direction to an off leash dog park to play fetch and play with all her other dog friends. She gets everythings dogs are supposed to get: ample exercise, socialization, ample human interaction…
gee, this apartment dweller really is a pretty lousy dog owner… seems like all these other people who commented are as well too right? guess you really hit the nail on the head with this one, huh?
maybe you should think twice when sharing your opinions, and atleast not realize EVERYBODY is how you might think they are.

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This article just appears reactionary. I as well came across this well doing research on dogs in apartments. Some people have spoken highly of the author of this blog here but it seems your argument is horribly flawed. I’m definitely no dog expert but I live in an apartment and my roommate has a dog. Unfortunately it must be miserable based on the title of this article because not only is it a dog- its a larger breed (a lab). However, my roommate also takes the dog on long runs and hunting very frequently. Quite frankly, I highly doubt that there are many dog owner’s who provide their pets with the highest optimum care as suggested by many of these websites because it becomes unrealistic. Furthermore, most people don’t keep themselves in optimal shape either so even though thats not an excuse to treat a dog poorly it should at least provide perspective. I think someone stepped in something on the way home and decided to vent their rage via a blanket statement backed up by a random assortment of websites proffering information on the “ideal” for dogs…

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I live in apartment and I have a very small dog… and yes, I am extremley busy and I work a lot and very long hours during the week.

But the fringe benefit of living and working in the city? My company actually allows for well-behaved dogs to accompany them to work. We go for walks on my lunch break, its lovely!

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When I got my dog, I lived in a house. Then my relationship disintegrated and I had no choice but to move into an apartment. I struggled with that and felt terrible about my dog not having a yard — she is a 60 lb high-energy dog. But the fact is that she gets more exercise now than when she had a yard, because I’m forced to walk her several times a day. When we let her out in the yard, she just sat there. Literally sat there in one spot waiting for us to come back outside.

Your post is just ignorant.

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I agree there are a LOT of dogs that shouldn’t be kept in apartments, but I don’t think you can generalize by size. Lots of teeny tiny dogs are SUPER high energy and are bouncing off the walls all day long, while certain large dogs are giant couch potatoes who only need one good long walk (and pee breaks) and are happy as clams lying around looking out the window all day. ALSO, don’t forget about all the poor creatures who are left in backyards tied up all day and all night without any socialization. I had an old broken down Rottweiler for many years who literally was too lazy to even get up when I’d go home at lunch to walk him! That guy was like, “Nice to see ya, but can’t you see I’m napping”….He got really well socialized thru all of our walks around the ‘hood and meeting so many other dogs and people. I hate how some people with yards think they can just stick their dog back there alone and think that’s ok. Ok, end rant.

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