August 11th, 2006

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Travel, Vancouver
113 Comments »

Who’s the Bigger Asshat, the Harley Rider or the Hummer Driver?

This is one of those bitchy, bloggy posts that I try not to write. But heck, I’ll make an exception.

I’ve started listening to a lot of audio books. Because Lord knows that I don’t want to be alone with my thoughts, I listen to my iPod whenever I leave my apartment on foot.

As it turns out, you have to listen a lot more carefully to the spoken word than you do to music. If you miss five or ten seconds of the bridge of, say, Madonna’s “Holiday”, it’s no great loss.

Miss ten seconds of Aristotle’s Poetics, on the other hand, and you’re hosed.

As such, I’ve become more sensitive to urban noise. Harley Davidson motorcycles are among the worst perpetrators. I’m embarrassed to admit that I didn’t realize until a few years ago (I think somebody pointed it out on this site) that they don’t have to make that much noise. The Harley rider is intentionally making a spectacle (and thus an asshole) of himself.

It’s a little ironic that Harleys are associated with being tough and thuggish, when really they scream “please, everybody, look at me! I’m desperate to be the centre of attention!” When I see Harley Davidsons on the weekend, I always assume that the drivers are, in fact, accountants and lawyers playing their own peculiar and expensive game of dress-up. It’s really only another small step to full-on drag.

I was walking home tonight, and a Hummer drove passed, followed soon after by a Harley. It made me wonder, who’s worse? On the one hand, the Hummer is an eyesore, occupies an absurd amount of road, and consumes gasoline like an F-18. On the other hand, the Harley fractures eardrums for several city blocks.

Who do you think is the bigger asshat? And, incidentally, does “Holiday” actually have a bridge?

UPDATE: A commenter points to a couple of interesting articles on ‘the noise level saves lives’ issue: “Loud Pipes Save Lives” or The Madness Behind the Myth and Loud Pipes MAY Save Lives - Another View. Here’s a quote that makes my point better than I can, apparently from a motorcycling enthusiast:

I have to wonder how many others, like myself, really enjoy hearing those cars with the mega-bass audio systems turned up so loud that our stomachs churn or the sound of trash trucks emptying the dumpster at 6 in the morning? Noise pollution effects everyone. Saying “I’m just doing my thing” just doesn’t cut it, not when “doing your thing” violates others right to peace and quiet, there is no right to make excessive noise! And what about the image that excessively loud motorcycles project? When the actions of others have a negative impact on my rights to enjoy motorcycling, that gets my goat up and it should get yours up too.

And a quote from the second, which is a reply on the other side of the argument:

. A policeman’s widow says her motorcycle cop husband talked about how the use of lights and sirens did not stop people from “missing” him. How would he know if the sirens worked - what did he see (or not see)? Many riders with loud pipes can recall instances where drivers made “near misses”. But all this does not refute the idea that loud pipes may have averted accidents. What do you measure or see when a driver does NOT make a lane change, or NOT pull out from a driveway in traffic, or NOT open a door into a rider and his ride — because he/she heard loud pipes? We cannot measure in these cases what does NOT happen - but this does not change the reality that it did NOT happen.

Comments: 113 Responses so far

Jarrett
August 11th, 2006
10:14 pm

The Harley, for this reason:

Space is relative, but noise is absolute. A TIME magazine article on sleep/noise pollution that was published a few years ago argued that a single noisy scooter in Paris could wake up to 200,000 people. Even if the number is only a hundredth of that, that’s still 2,000 more agitated, cranky people out there who’re far less rested, far more risky as a hazard, far less productive, and of course, far less tolerant of noisy hogs.

The annoying factor of the Hummer cannot cause the kind of harm that the Harley’s annoying factor can; therefore, the Harley is worse.

[Reply]

nico
August 11th, 2006
10:32 pm

As a nightshift worker: the harley is the worst. I don’t hear the hummers. I hear the damn fool ass harley rider who guns his hawg down Gastown at precisely 6:30 pm every evening, setting off car alarms. if I could geta clear shot, I’d take the bastard out with a can of soup lobbed from my window.

I just don’t buy the “if you can’t hear us, you can’t see us” they’re selling. I don’t suppose it’s crossed their minds that if they didn’t act like road-asses, other drivers wouldn’t give them so much contempt.

Courtesy means not sounding like a 747 going past my window.

( and yes, i’ve got good aim….)

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Mark
August 12th, 2006
6:13 am

As a motorcyclist (I dislike Harley’s and their look a likes) I would have to say that the harley would be the more annoying, but that we need to fight both cultures that of disturbing the piece for no reason and consuming what the economist would like to deny non renewable resources. Which when one thinks about it the harly does both.

Also I seen an advertisement in a motorcycle magazine for a special exhaust system that has a button to press so that the annoying harley can be quieted for riding in residential areas and then pressed again for annoying people.

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Jeff
August 12th, 2006
7:03 am

Damn fine post Darren. Thank you.

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Cash
August 12th, 2006
7:26 am

The Hummer won’t try to work its way between me and the car to my right in 30 mile an hour traffic and then whine like a schoolgirl if they get hit so Harley riders - and motorcyclists in general - get my vote.

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Todd
August 12th, 2006
7:40 am

I’d have to say the Harley, as the riders who insist on modding the bikes to be louder get off on being annoying. Hummer drivers simply live in a world of abject low-grade panic and penis inadequacy, believing that they need 4-wheel drive to get red wine. This actually applies to all SUVs if I may be so blunt on a Saturday morn.

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Mike
August 12th, 2006
9:36 am

I own a stock 2005 Harley. The mufflers are factory issue. Louder muffler/pipes for my model breaks down like this; $650 for pipes/mufflers, $140 for a new air breather, $270 for a new fuel management device and $300 for dealer install and setup. $1,360 for more noise (and a little increased performance). My stock Harley suits me just fine. I’m not on a “Look at me” trip. I’m not playing an expensive game of dress up. I didn’t by a Harley to be one of the ‘click’. I bought my bike as a commuter (45 mpg)and weekend pleasure ride for my wife and myself ($1,360 comes in handy here). Not all riders are the same. I would hope not everyone judges me and my bike as one of ‘those assholes’. Thats equal to judging entire races of people and religions based on some of those groups.

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darren
August 12th, 2006
9:45 am

Mike: I’ll judge your Harley riding only on one issue: how much louder is it than the average car?

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Mike
August 12th, 2006
9:59 am

I don’t want to get into a pissing contest. It’s simply this: Factory stock motorcycles must pass the EPA standards for noise levels (what ever those levels may be). Harley-Davidson motorcycles are no exception. The regulations are getting tougher each year. Harley-Davidson no longer sells high performance exhausts for their products because of them. As stated, my bike is factory stock and can still pass EPA regs. There are plenty of SUV’s, 4X4, ‘hot rods’ and fast-n-furious cars out there that are louder than a stock Harley. Road noise alone from tires on some vehicles are louder than my bike.

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darren
August 12th, 2006
10:22 am

Mike: Well, I live in Canada, so it’s not the EPA up here. Apparently it’s the Motor Vehicle Safey Act. That document claims that a motorcycle’s noise level shouldn’t exceed 82 dBA. According to this chart, that’s comparable to a traffic noise from inside a car. That’s not the noise level I’d ascribe to the Harleys I’m talking about.

You may well be right. I’ll pay attention to see if I think it’s all Harleys which are inordinately loud, or just some.

If you are correct, the Harley clearly has a perception problem. I expect that most people feel the way I do, that all Harleys are unacceptably loud.

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Nelly
August 12th, 2006
6:20 pm

We can’t classify all Harley owners as asshats with obnoxious exhausts. Same with rice rocket motorcycles. I have a loud motorcycle. But for me, there’s a time and place for it. If you keep the revs low in the city, no one seems to notice. I bet it’s the same with Harleys (at least the ones with modified mufflers/exhausts.)

What annoys me is the freakin muffler-less Harley / car owners that choose to rev it up in the city. Especially if they do it in the middle of the night. They’re not going very far before the next light will turn red. And really - how much faster do those stupid exhaust mods make your vehicle?

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Nico
August 12th, 2006
10:56 pm

Mike: then you’re not the asshole rider i want to peg with a can of soup, I suspect.

I can tell the difference between a normal decibel motorcycle, and one that rattles the windows and sets off alarms and ruptures eardrums.

Be it a harley or any other vehicle modded for extra-obnoxious, these people suck.

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Derek K. Miller
August 13th, 2006
6:16 pm

On balance, while the loud bikes are more annoying, the Hummers are worse in the long term for human civilization.

Has anyone tried making a hybrid Harley? That would be interesting.

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John
August 13th, 2006
8:10 pm

Jarrett, I sent a copy of the TIME article you mentioned to the Harley-Davidson dealership that’s just down the road from where I live, and another copy to my city council. I got no written reply from either, but I like to think it had something to do with the reduced Harley traffic through this residential area (there are numerous alternate routes, as I pointed out in my letters). Prior to this I would have named Harley riders as the bigger asshats, but under the circumstances–

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DavidM
August 13th, 2006
10:27 pm

Definitely the Hummer.

The Harley is an irritant - it doesn’t do lasting damage as noise is temporary and not stored.

The Hummer uses greater quantities of unsustainable resources that pollute the atmosphere with a lasting and tangible impact.

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Darren James Harkness
August 14th, 2006
10:55 am

Believe it or not, the loudness of the Harley is a safety feature. Motorcyclists have, in general, a difficult time with drivers not noticing them on the road and cutting them off. With the non-baffled exhaust of the Harley, the chances of a motorist not noticing your presence beside/behind them is significantly reduced, and as a result, reduces the chance of accidents.

This isn’t to say that this is the reason Harley riders love the noise, of course, but it is a justification I have heard for it.

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Mark
August 14th, 2006
12:32 pm

I don’t buy the noise is necessary for the cars to notice a motorcycle. It is in how one rides. If you ride in a safe and predictable manner that guards your space then the other vehicles can’t help but notice you with or without the noise factor. I get more annoyed at cars in my blind spot then a motorcycle that I can see in my mirrors or otherwise. If I am on my bike or in my car.

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Jackie
August 16th, 2006
1:48 pm

I am a Mother of two young boys - one aged two and one aged four months. I have on a number of occasions been so annoyed (for want of a more powerful word without swearing) by the agressive noise of an un-muffled Harley that I’ve wished I’d taken down the plate number with the aim of vandalising the bike if I could find it. And I would have if I wasn’t so busy trying to placate a screeming, terrified baby who moments before had been slumbering innocently and blissfully in the stroller as I waited for the pedestrial walk sign at a city intersection. Honestly - the noise can be so alarming and painful to an infant (and adult) that the *&^% biker may as well have come up and slapped my child. I have a friend whose child went from being a calm, relaxed baby to being highly anxious and very easily alarmed by noise after a group of un-muffled Harleys ‘attacked’ his safe world at the tender age of four months. Child and mother (new immigrants to Canada) were left clinging to each other as the mother tried to soothe her frantic, terrified baby, while five or six %^&$s on un-muffled *&^^%s took off in a race with each other from an intersection at which she was standing. The child is now ten and still scares at the slightest noise. Can anyone tell me if there is any effort on the part of law enforcement to penalise those who exceed the noise level stipulated in the Motor Vehicle Safey Act? If so, how can we as affected members of the public assist with enforcement (i.e. report)?

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Kat
August 18th, 2006
8:10 pm

I have lived in a very crowded apartment complex next to a Harley owner who took *great* delight in revving his engine at all hours. He worked the graveyard shift as well, and would revv it for at least 2 solid minutes before heading off to work each night. His reason for purchasing a Harley, was, among other things, for the distinctive noise that “only Harley’s have”.

Now, having moved into a house, I live across the street from a man who, during the day, will again, revv the engine of his Harley for quite awhile, then, circle the neighborhood and resume the revving once more while parked in his driveway.

It’s the knowledge of being a disturbance and not caring about the way it could affect others that makes these particular Harley owners an annoyance. This, to me, is in the same category of people who blast their music, roll all their windows down, and then cruise through residential areas seemingly taking delight in rattling everyone’s house windows.

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Big AL
August 19th, 2006
5:23 pm

You know what’s more annoying than loud HDs and Humms: Cagers pulling in front of my bike talking on their cell phones…blah,blah,blah…hello …hello..YOU SEE ME?…HELLO!…why are you still pulling in front of me even though your eyes are squarely fixated on my bike?…blind as bats…

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Annie
August 22nd, 2006
2:51 pm

Mark, I agree with you. I don’t buy the noise=safety excuse either. If they are so concerned with safety, why do they wear unapproved beanie helmets which offer no protection at all. Some Harley guy was killed yesterday in Vancouver because he was wearing one of those stupid-looking beanie hats. Natural selection I guess…

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Hugh
August 22nd, 2006
7:47 pm

Darren, I’m afraid to say that I’d exonerate both Harley and Hummer, and go for the user of the bizarre (and presumably PC) concoction “asshat” over the entirely more satisfactory, historical, and fittingly utilitarian “asshole”.

(or, preferably, “arsehole”, but you North Americans rule the world these days, so I can’t complain too much)

–Hugh

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Peter
August 23rd, 2006
3:31 pm

Forget all the reasoning. Like some others in society, Harley riders putting on loud exhausts just dont care about anyone but themselves. Asking them to respond to calls for reasonableness, consideration and the like, is just to project your own values onto them which they are clearly demonstrating they are not interested. They simply dont care what you think, they are too preoccupied with their narcissistic fantasies which above all involve them being the centre of attention. Like any other egotist, they will only respond to the law or other disincentive bigger than their chosen pleasure.
That’s why its a pity the police have done so little. They waited until the summer was almost over before going on a ticketing ‘blitz’ for high noise levels (havent read anything on results yet). Problem is the ticket is $109, and the exhausts cost $1000+ So in the rare case of getting caught, they’ll just pay the fine as a minor irritant and keep on revving. After all they’ve paid $20K+ for the pleasure of all this. Until bikes are either impounded, or forced to attend a police station within 30days with the exhaust corrected - as in other countries - well, dont expect anything to change. Personally, I think the VPD will fail to deliver, this is just the minimum they could do after hundreds of complaints. And pressure for resources means they nearly always go for the minimum. Expect the rainy season to do a much better job at damping down the sound of loud exhausts.

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Will
August 28th, 2006
7:31 am

You know what’s more annoying than loud pipes on Harley’s and Hummer’s? People who consider all Harley riders assholes while talking on their cell phones in traffic.

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GrumpyGit
August 29th, 2006
1:07 pm

Whaddaya all whining about? The sound of a Harley is music - the louder the better.

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Buck
September 5th, 2006
6:38 pm

I think the biggest fucking asshats are the wannabee fast and the furious street racers listening to their ground pounding stereos talking on cell phones

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Batpappy
September 10th, 2006
1:56 am

“loud pipes save lives” i have that patch on the back of my vest just for you and your think-alikes, and they have saved mine 3 times now. in every instance the cage (auto) driver did not see me, was about to pull directly into my path and tuened their head when they heard me. I will quiet my Harley down when everyone stats “seeing motorcycles” oh and by the way even from a non rider viewpoint the hummer is worse, here is why: it is making an quiet impact on all of us as a whole through the gas guzzling motor, the fauna crushing wheels, no emissions (yes trucks are exempt from testing in most states and my loud harley still had to pass)and the fact that it will kill everyone in an economy car in a collision. I noticed most people were choosing the Asshat simply out of selfishness, just what bothered them and not what hurt us all more as a whole, even the asshats. to me the worst choice is always the one that caters to the fewest people. i dont like rice racer cars with loud thumping stereos, but i will defend the owners right to have one, this is america. thank you for an interesting topic on a blog i stumbled acroos.

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Batpappy
September 10th, 2006
2:09 am

oh i got forgot the most important part, the guys that ride those loud harleys, and the guys that play those loud rock guitars, seem to get all the coolest chicks. no science, just experience, hahahahha.

p.s. judging by the number of accountants and lawers throwin on the leather on saturdays, my life is one of the favorite fantasy’s of the “tie weain’ button down crowd”

[Reply]

Rick
September 15th, 2006
4:35 am

dude, loud pipes save lives.
I know for a fact, that when I am cruising on a busy hiway and some chick is doing her makeup changing lanes, one blip of my throttle and they know I am there.
You have to remember, we get hit and we are dead, pretty big price to pay for enjoying freedom.
If I ride my Harley conservatively, the noise offends no one, if I get aggressive rolling on the throttle, the bike begs to be seen, and will be seen because of the noise getting ones attention.
I don’t like attention, quite frankly, but if I am doing 80 MPH and some retard just so much as even touches me, I am done for.
I have survived 27 years of riding, and had some close calls, every one of them were because I wasn’t seen. or “heard”
common, have you ever been in a fender bender, everyone has, well try it on a motorcycle, you loose legs and stuff here man!
I will be as loud as mechanically possible, illegal or not.
So with all due respect, I felt I had to make my point clear.
Please respect that guy you see cruising on the hiway enjoying life, and him knowing how easy it is to loose.
The risk of riding in general, is worth the reward, but I will always do whatever possible lower the odds of injury or death, it is human nature.

[Reply]

Horizon
September 16th, 2006
4:10 am

You are a intelectual Snob .
You judge people by what they ride or drive , but know nothing about them , their lifestyle or there culture.
I am presuming that you have never riden a Road bike or let alone a Harley on the roads , with every arsehat including IT proffessionals with their pen holders, glasses as thick as coke bottles , listening to barry manalow and not concentrating on the road , but thinking about playboy centre folds or happily masterbating about the next program microsoft is going to release to make normal working class peoples lives hell and IT nerds in their glory.
Before you stereo type how about you actually get out from behind the screen and actually hop on one and try it ( game software doesnt count either) .
Then if you think loud pipes and the love of riding is still crap by all means , but until then dont knock something you have never done.

and by the way , I ride a sports bike , not a harley.

[Reply]

CJ
September 16th, 2006
4:41 am

Dear Darren

If you think a Harley has loud pipes, just to annoy you and your ilk, then please block your sensitive ears when I go past on my Moto Guzzi Cali 3 (referred to by many of the great unwashed as the ‘Woghog’). Now since I dispensed with the balance box and mufflers, I have achieved an almost orgasmic note, which truly takes me to the heights of ecstacy when I back off at speed. Since removing the mufflers, I have never found the need to masturbate.
Tunnels in Perth, Sydney and Adelaide have been provided just for me to scare the shit out of unsuspecting motorists.
Get out of my way, sonny. Here comes some real machinery.

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HardDrive
September 16th, 2006
4:46 am

Hey SNAG, I ride a Harley and it’s goddamn LOUDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!

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shrek
September 16th, 2006
12:53 pm

You Darren are the optitomy of a frontal albotomy, or a hemeroid, use you brain and pull yer head outa ya arse and get a life and in doing so I hope you get deafened by a bike with loud pipes or hit by a humber…..

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FATBOY
September 16th, 2006
2:11 pm

Your a tool ya yuppie looking cockwad wannabe…

take 1 look at ya hows the rendered 2 storey appartment going..

hahah Harley riders will tell you what they think also intimidated by that hey ?

Keep hiding behind your college degree and your webpage pretty boy. Im sure some guy out there will be your perfect match.

LIVE TO RIDE! AND I RIDE TO LIVE!

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darren
September 16th, 2006
2:52 pm

Welcome to Harley fans from OzBiker.org. Feel free to hurl insults, but I’m actually interested in your perspective. Do you think many people are bothered by the noise your bikes make? If so, does it matter to you?

Also, do you intentionally modify your Harleys to make them louder than the factory defaults? If so, why? I think most people would agree that they’re great to look at, but not everybody (judging by the comments above, at least) digs the sound they make.

Also, I’m curious about the ‘noise saves lives’ theory which a couple of Harley riders have offered. Does anybody have any studies or media reports about this? I curious if there’s any reports that demonstrate that Harley riders in accidents less often than those riding quieter bikes?

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Racie
September 16th, 2006
7:07 pm

Dont like the way I ride, then stay off the foot path.
Dont like noise then wear earplugs.

geeze.

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fuknKIWI
September 16th, 2006
7:19 pm

Go & shit in your hat.

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Sean
September 16th, 2006
7:27 pm

Do you think many people are bothered by the noise your bikes make? If so, does it matter to you?

There is truth in the saying that “loud pipes, saves lives” Often people driving cars are too interested in knowing that there is a bike around them.
They can often hear the bike before they see the rider. And as such this is a safty issue. If pissing a few people off saves my life, so that I can get home safely to my wife and children then so be it.

Also, do you intentionally modify your Harleys to make them louder than the factory defaults? If so, why?

Yes, once again it is both a safety issue, and a perfomance issue. if a idiot in a car has an accident, then they get a smashed car.
if that said idiot cage driver hits a bike, it could mean death, or worst.

i have had quiet bikes over the years, and been cut off, pushed off the road etc. I now prefer to ride a safer bike, and be able to get home to my kids.

Also, I’m curious about the ‘noise saves lives’ theory which a couple of Harley riders have offered. Does anybody have any studies or media reports about this? I curious if there’s any reports that demonstrate that Harley riders in accidents less often than those riding quieter bikes?

Like I have said, I have witnessed this myself. I dont need to see any reports to know that I have been saved several times by the drivers around me knowing that somewhere near them is a bike.

My last bike bike was a quiet bike. I cant recall ever riding it, even once that I was cut off, pushed off the road or even targeted by Clowns in their cars.
Since riding a noisy bike, I can become more relaxed and enjoy the ride.

Majority if the accidents involving cars and bikes. have had the drivers saying that they couldnt see the bike.
Now they dont have an excuse, they can hear that a bikes is near.

[Reply]

Sean
September 16th, 2006
7:35 pm

just to add abit more.
This is what bike riders have to deal with. Alot of these could have been avoided by the drivers hearing the bike-

http://home1.gte.net/res0ak9f/bike.htm

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Biker
September 16th, 2006
7:43 pm

I have to admit I disagree with the loud pipes save lives. It, in fact, costs them.

I ride an unmuffled bike so the noise masks the shots from my 9mm Browning during ride by shooting.

Get lots of yuppies that way.

Oh by the way, you left the door open, so I came in. Want me to shut it on the way out?

[Reply]

Sean
September 16th, 2006
8:24 pm

Biker Says:
September 16th, 2006 at 7:43 pm

I have to admit I disagree with the loud pipes save lives. It, in fact, costs them

What do you ride? i bet its something japanese. :P

[Reply]

Ron
September 16th, 2006
8:45 pm

- The vast majority of bike accidents are from the front. To have any chance of alerting those motorists to the presence of a motorcycle with exhaust noise would require that the tailpipe be pointed forward. LOL. The chances of rearward-facing straight pipes making a bike more obvious are very slim. The reality of the loud pipe is that all you’ll succeed in doing is irritating all the people behind and beside you who don’t pose much of a threat anyway.
- You are pissing off everyone around you. So who cares if you gun the throttle past an open driver’s-side window and scare the hell out of the occupants? At least they see you, right? Maybe, but take a look at what happened to personal watercraft in Minnesota. They’ve effectively been relegated to the daylight hours so that residents and other users of lakes can have their quiet time. Take a look at what happened in Yellowstone. Put it another way: how much do you appreciate the “music” blaring from other people’s cars: the throbbing car stereo that shakes the very ground with some indistinguishable bass crap? How interested in someone else’s music are you? Perhaps nobody else wants to listen to it. Perhaps they don’t like the sound. Maybe they’re trying to concentrate, or talk, or watch TV, or sleep. Maybe their kids are trying to sleep.
- Loud exhaust pipes are illegal. Even HD has finally stopped installing them.

If you are really concerned about saving lives, a $30.00 reflective safety vest will save your biscuit a thousand times before that four-into-one will.

[Reply]

Sean
September 16th, 2006
9:30 pm

That is the case with quiet bikes, you can only hear them from behind.

Harley with a loud pipe can be heard forwards, sideways shit even up on a hill.

HD stopped installing them for the simple fact of noise laws. They even advised in the handbook to replace the pipes.

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Sean
September 16th, 2006
9:32 pm

To test that theory, park in front of a harley with loud pipes and tell me you cant hear it.

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Biker
September 16th, 2006
10:14 pm

Sean - you the know all, see all monkey around here?

I don’t ride fucking jap crap. I ride real iron man - and I’m heading your way with loud pipes, one up the spout and 14 in the mag to ventilate you.

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Biker
September 16th, 2006
10:15 pm

Oh, and I’ve decided to start a site called http://www.wehatesean.com

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Butch
September 16th, 2006
10:19 pm

This is the biggest bunch of mess I have ever heard. Yes, the Harley has more sound, but the Hummer gets about 10mpg and the Harley gets about 50mpg. So do you want to hear a good sound, or do you want to pay $5.00 a gal for gas because of the “Hummers”?

[Reply]

Sean
September 16th, 2006
10:21 pm

I don’t ride fucking jap crap. I ride real iron man - and I’m heading your way with loud pipes, one up the spout and 14 in the mag to ventilate you.

And you dislike loud pipes?

Going to tear me a new ass, well 15 of them heh.
Oh well shit happens.
I thought you were someone else, that does ride jap crap. LOL.

[Reply]

Horizon
September 16th, 2006
10:32 pm

In response to Ron.
The highest majority of Non- Fatal accidents are caused by Cars moving over on bikes. (failer to adequatley do headchecks or use mirrors.)

Then for Fatal accidents are front on.( failure to look properly, these are both the fault of the car driver Re: stats swann insurance on finds motorcyclist responsable in 7% of 2 vehicle collisions).

So Having loud pipes DOES alert these ignorant car drivers that their is a bike beside them, thus preventing accidents.

now for your noise issue.
Firstly , Noise actually does travel forward of the bike and most people hear the bike before they see it especially in conjested traffic.

Secondly, Car manafactured these day have a “cone of silance” with in the cabin , newer cars have higher sound deadening than older cars of the early 90’s.

Most bikes with after market pipes range between 93-100dB , which take a truck with exshaust brakes is higher than that , yes also these idiot Riceboys with there music, airplanes, building sites , rock concerts etc etc.
You will also find that certain bikes exshausts are loud because of the note , not the volume. ( ie the bass in these people who ’s car thump at the traffic lights).

Do you also complain when a ambulance , police car or fire truck pass’s your house or you on the road (110dB + sirens) ?

Now why are there sirens so loud , to warn traffic of there where abouts , do you ever think or ask the question why they are so loud?
because car are becoming more capsulated and sound proof as i previously mentioned.

loud pipes do save lives , i experiance it everyday driving in traffic and know from 1st hand experiance, the only people who are against loud pipes are envoirment , noise polution fanatics and if they had there way we would be all driving electric cars and you would never be able to own a gas guzzling V8 monster.

Reflective vests do not save lives in motorcyclists , this is a fact .
Motorcycle were once manafacturered with headlights that were permantly on whilst the bike was running , now if you cant see a 100 watt halegen headlight beading down on you at night how can you say they will see a vest.

On that issue , these new LED lights for brakes and blinkers , high visability and brightness and goverments and coppers try and legislate against having them and book riders for placing them on there bikes……go figure.

If you think pipes dont make a differance , ask a motorcycle copper how many times he has been nearly knocked of his bike when he has had lights and sirens on while wearing there reflective police vest ?

[Reply]

Horizon
September 16th, 2006
10:49 pm

Re RON
Also you have quoted a document Ie “Hurt report ” also an opinion ( article) written by Jeffery LH Tank , but in there offers No scientific facts.
http://www.virginiawind.com/byways/loud_pipes_save_lives.asp

here is the well written reply and also scientific facts to mr Tanks OPINION.
http://www.virginiawind.com/letters/03oct14.asp

[Reply]

Longrider
September 16th, 2006
10:52 pm

Anyone that thinks having a protective vest on has his head up his ass, I had a SUV pull out in front of me from a stop sign. There are 5 lights on the front of the bike, If they dont see that many lights whats a vest going to do? And yes Loud pipes do save lives. If they dont see you they will at least hear it.

[Reply]

shrek
September 16th, 2006
11:06 pm

Sean, I ride a japper and be fucked if it aint louder than your harley…. I hope you got 15 ear rings to fit the holes LOL

[Reply]

H1 Freak
September 16th, 2006
11:23 pm

Hey stupid…Were you complaining about the noise when the hummer was securing you freedom in this country?? You are such an IDIOT

[Reply]

Sean
September 17th, 2006
12:09 am

# shrek Says:
September 16th, 2006 at 11:06 pm

Sean, I ride a japper and be fucked if it aint louder than your harley…. I hope you got 15 ear rings to fit the holes LOL

Yea, thought it was you haha. Now im gonna leak like a Triumph.

[Reply]

Nigga
September 17th, 2006
12:26 am

Dont be sending any of ya fuckwit mates over to Ozbiker.

As for the thread topic, the biggest asshats are the blindarse cage drivers who are the cause of motorbike accidents.

[Reply]

sh2m
September 17th, 2006
4:14 am

ok just my 2 cents but pipe are a lifesaver when you hace a hron that goes beep beep and the nut in the car has his or her cellphone or the radio so loud they could not hear a train .whats this little beep beep going to do? (nothing) and its not like you can hit the center of the wheel to sound the hore it is just a little button on the grip next to the blinker and light and a few more little buttons to grab the clutch and rap the pipes if safer and louder then the beep beep of the horn most folks don’t even see us till they hear us .

[Reply]

mungo
September 17th, 2006
5:23 am

Interesting to read all the people who don’t know much about motorcycles and who are so ready to prejudice a whole community of riders because of a few “asshats”.

Yes of course, I’m a motorcyclist. I own 4 Harley’s. With one exception, all have modified exhaust. But it’s not the straight drag pipes you guys are complaining about. Yes, it’a little louder than stock. Mine sound more like a well tuned big block Chevy than a Testors engine airplane.

There are extremists in every activity. It’s not just Harley’s with loud exhaust, it’s Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis, and even some of these cars with modified exhaust.

Having said this, even drag pipes are not that loud unless the owner rips the throttle. And there are people out there like that. But not all of us.

To the person who pointed out an apparent hypocrasy to bikers whining about safety but yet wearing non-approved beanie helmets. Well, if the “cagers” (car driving people) paid attention to what they were doing, there’d be no need to wear a helmet at all now would there?

Which leads me to, what is absolutely worse, the Harley/Hummer, or the increasing safety measures in cars that cause drivers not to seem to care if they get in an accident or not? And the increasing dirver distractions, i.e. cell phones, stereos, GPS’s, etc that prevent rivers from looking at the road.

It’s surprising though and very dissapointing to hear someone “intellectual” group a class of people and judge all of them based on the actions of a few “Asshats”. Sort of sounds like prejudice or stereotyping or just plain ignorance doesn’t it?

[Reply]

darren
September 17th, 2006
6:50 am

Horizon: Thanks for answering my questions and links to those articles. I’ll check them out. Hopefully in the next 10 or 15 years cars will be equipped with detection systems that prevent most of the accidents you describe.

The difference, I think, between the motorcycle and the ambulance/fire engine/police car is that they’re only on for a short time, and serve a specific purpose. A loud motorcycle is always loud, regardless of whether it’s in danger or not.

For example–I’m totally speculating here–if a motorcycle was only loud when it was about to get hit (through, say, some kind of detection system), I wouldn’t have any complaint. Of course, that’s unlikely to magically appear in the near future.

I should also clarify that my complaint is only about bikes in the city. I have no beef with their volume anywhere else, because it impacts very few people. And my noise concern isn’t just about Harleys–I feel the same way about cars with ridiculously loud and bass-driven stereos.

[Reply]

Darren's Lover
September 17th, 2006
7:11 am

This is the funniest thing I’ve seen in a while. A guy named Barefoot, with a pic of himself wearing a hat that makes him look like an ass, complaining about Harley riders and calling them asshats. You must be a barrel laughs around the girls. I’ve got a Fatboy, modified the exhaust, intake, power commander etc… I ride it responsibly in neighborhoods, in traffic, around children. You shouldn’t lump all Harley riders into one asshat group Darren. I wouldn’t lump every guy who spends his life complaining on his own website into one group. Get a life and take off that stupid hat ass.

[Reply]

darren
September 17th, 2006
8:29 pm

I’ve deleted a few posts because they didn’t add anything to the conversation. That’s generally my comments policy (which I must dig up)–if a comment has nothing constructive to add to the debate (like, for example, Horizon and Mungo above), I may delete it.

[Reply]

darren
September 17th, 2006
8:57 pm

You know what? I seem to have upset some people with this post, and I apologize for that. I wrote it because I was frustrated by the noise pollution that I think Harley Davidson motorcycles cause (and the sundry other kinds of pollution that Hummers cause).

It’s apparent that people feel passionate on both sides of this issue. Clearly I’ve offended people, and so I’m sorry.

I am happy that, among the insults, there has been some genuine discussion about the topic, and some ideas exchanged.

Speaking personally, nobody has changed my mind about the volume of Harleys, but the reading on the idea that ‘loud pipes save lives’ has been informative.

I am really curious to hear some Harley riders to respond to the questions I posed about. In particular, “Do you think many people are bothered by the noise your bikes make? If so, does it matter to you?” That, to me, is the fundamental issue, and what prompted my post in the first place.

[Reply]

Sean
September 17th, 2006
10:27 pm

Do you think many people are bothered by the noise your bikes make? If so, does it matter to you?

Yes, Im aware that my bike is loud and that annoys people.
Does it matter to me??
Not for a minute, if pissing people off means I can get home to my family. Then I dont give a rats arse who It pisses off.

[Reply]

jap rider
September 18th, 2006
12:20 am

All harley riders have loud pipes to compansate for the low IQ that they have…they dont call them ape hangers for nothing..

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HummerGuy
September 18th, 2006
7:47 am

I respect the fact that everybody has their own opinions, but us H3 owners consistantly get between 18 to 20 MPG which is better then alot of sports cars and luxury sport sedans out there, but you don’t hear people complaining about the gas mileage coming from those. A H2 does not get as good of mileage and of course neither does the H1, but if you are going to complain about SUVs, don’t single out Hummer just because it’s Hummer, but you can stereotype and classify AL large SUVs out there. Some people actually use them for what they are meant to be used for. I am a motorcycle rider and own two, a sport bike and a cruiser. I know many Harley owners, and none of them could care what other’s think of their looks. They care about what the bike looks like to themselves. They are not trying to impress anybody. They love their bikes, the same way someone may love their car. Everybody has something they are proud of. Yes, there are some Harley owners out there, as well as Hummer owners, that use them as a status symbol, but you can’t go stereotyping and generalize all Harley owners or all Hummer owners as using their vehicles as status symbols. I bought my H3 so I can take it off-roading and go on road trips. I could care less who sees it or who thinks what about it. As far as it being an eyesore, that is your personal opinion which is fine, but it isn’t made to look pretty. It was made to go off-roading, take it OUT of the cramped city and actually see the rest of the country which is more then just city streets and Starbucks on every corner. There’s more to life then the city, and ironically enough, it’s always the City people critisizing the Hummers and Harleys, when it is the Hummer and Harley owners that truely appreciate this great country by taking the time to see it, instead of watching it on TV and bitching about it. But by saying that, I would be just as bad and stereotyping city people. Funny how I live in the city. Oh well, I guess I’m just a hypocrit, and can’t spell no less.

[Reply]

Nigga
September 21st, 2006
11:48 pm

Fuck off Japrider, ya cocksmoker

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Chineseguywithaharley
September 30th, 2006
6:20 am

Everyone that slams harley riders has never ridden one. I’ll bet most of you that hate them would shit your pants if faced with the challenge of getting on one and riding it on a busy street or highway. Conquering that fear is very liberating.

Have you ever done something just for fun? Ever go sky diving, scuba diving, mountain climbing, 4 wheel off roading or anything else that is entirely unnecessary but fun? Your idea of fun is watching reruns of the golden girls while drinking your wine spritzer. Riding a Harley is just plain fun. Exhilarating and exciting.

I challenge you to go take a rider safety course, then see what you think about motorcycles. They provide the bikes, helmets, everything else you need. Try not to shit your pants.

[Reply]

Onikaze
October 13th, 2006
9:42 pm

The thing about both Hummers and loud Harleys is they’re completely unnecessary. In the case of the Hummer, it’s basically a rolling tribute to decadence and image at the expense of global health. Just go all the way and club some baby seals. The Harleys, on the other hand, don’t have to be that loud. It’s an attention ploy and nothing more. Whereas the Hummer screams “my ego is more important than the welfare of my species,” the Harley screams.. almost literally.. “my ego is more important than my or your hearing.”

It’s just pointless.

On a side note, my dad who used to work as a BMW motorcycle mechanic always had an amusing ditty about newly-purchased HDs.

“Harley, Harley, made of tin. Ride it out and push it in.”

[Reply]

Rick
October 18th, 2006
6:58 pm

You guys amaze me with your pros and cons. To each their own…We live in a rat race to nowhere. Some in Hummers others on HOGS. Now get this, Harley still meets EPA standards and sell only USA EPA bikes in Canada. If you choose to change your pipes then you risk the chance of a ticket. Mileage wise… a Harley is one of the best MPG bikes made (touring Models). To any biker who doesn’t like the look, you choose the ride you like or can afford. To SUV people they choose what they like or can afford. Get over the characteristics associated with each and live your lives the best you can. Smile and wave to the guy who burns more gas then you or to the loud biker who is wearing ear plugs.

[Reply]

mike
October 25th, 2006
8:17 pm

The End of the “Loud Pipes Save Lives” Argument.

Harley Rider: “If my bike wasn’t loud, it would be more dangerous for me. I could get hit by a car that didn’t see me”

Response: No one is forcing you to ride a motorcycle- That is a risk that you decided to take.

THOUSANDS of people are annoyed every day and have their quality of life deteriorated just for your added safety. They have no choice.

Yes, this is America and the freedom of thousands of people to live their lives in peace comes before the freedom of one Harley Rider who doesn’t care about other people.

- mike (a quiet motorcycle rider)

[Reply]

Rhinebank
November 4th, 2006
2:40 pm

“Loud pipes save lives”

People have already pointed out this is horseshit, the noise is projected backward while many or most accidents are caused from striking things head on.

But besides that, there is an obvious point that needs mentioning.

It’s a motorcycle. If you decide to ride one, you should know what you are getting yourself into.

When a sack of rippable flesh and breakable bone rides largely unprotected at traffic and highway speed among cars and trucks, nasty accidents are going to happen. Afraid of being in one? Then you are a fake ass pussy wannabe who should’t be riding a bike in the first place. It’s obviously a dangerous thing to do; the rest of us shouldn’t have to pay for your inability to understand that.

[Reply]

Mike N.
November 8th, 2006
6:18 pm

Just remember:

Opinions are like Asshats. Everybody has one.

[Reply]

Bill W
December 23rd, 2006
9:39 pm

# Rhinebank Says:
November 4th, 2006 at 2:40 pm

“Loud pipes save lives”

People have already pointed out this is horseshit, the noise is projected backward while many or most accidents are caused from striking things head on.

But besides that, there is an obvious point that needs mentioning.

It’s a motorcycle. If you decide to ride one, you should know what you are getting yourself into.

When a sack of rippable flesh and breakable bone rides largely unprotected at traffic and highway speed among cars and trucks, nasty accidents are going to happen. Afraid of being in one? Then you are a fake ass pussy wannabe who should’t be riding a bike in the first place. It’s obviously a dangerous thing to do; the rest of us shouldn’t have to pay for your inability to understand that.

PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP !!!!!!!
You want to be heard use you OEM factory installed HORN it is loud and you will notice it has a higher tone than most cars .hell get a bigger horn, Put your damn lights on as well.Dont tail gate or lane split WTF’s with that.
Oh and them there black leathers really make you more noticable.
No I don’t ride . I used too but the risks are there …moreso than my cage.I look at it this way you make a mistake/they make a misstake your toast.
The noise that some NOT ALL of the bikes/cars..(thier both guilty) make are ridiculous. Most of the time the noise is created by the hard acceleration of the engine . If they did not carank the darn thing wide open it would almost be acceptable.
And yes we all have 2 things in this life we are intitled to …An opinion and an asshole …..Merry Christmas to all!!!!!!

[Reply]

Ron
December 29th, 2006
12:36 pm

http://www.ride2die.com

Check out the site and what it says about ‘loud pipes’

[Reply]

Dick Blakely
December 31st, 2006
1:39 pm

Very interesting, all the bitching and moaning, my best guess is that the people so indignant can neither afford a Harley or Hummer and are just ole farts or typical mama’s boys. Get a life, from a harley rider with wind in your hair and sun on your face and a rumble between your legs is not a bad thing.

[Reply]

Death Threats in the Blogosphere | DarrenBarefoot.com
March 26th, 2007
3:05 pm

[...] Aside from the occasional, random flammage, the only threats of abuse I’ve ever received are from Harley Davidson enthusiasts. They apparently didn’t like being called ‘asshats’. [...]

Erwin Blonk
March 29th, 2007
10:03 am

It is interesting that pro-noise commenters respond to almost every argument except that of young children being (understandably) scared of the noise. But it´s just not that cool to tell those kids can go f*** themselves, is it?

I´m lucky my kids can take just about any noise. When my boy was 1yo he was asleep on a terrace next to 2 touringcars, 5 feet from their engines, they both started and let them run stationary for 10 minutes…. and he slept like a rose.

[Reply]

Ron
April 3rd, 2007
11:11 am

It’s not a matter of ‘if’ but a matter of ‘when’ you are going to crash. Use your horn or you will end up looking like the people on that page.

Frankly I think anyone who rides a bike is an idiot.

[Reply]

Ron
April 3rd, 2007
11:12 am

http://www.ride2die.com

[Reply]

Bubba
April 19th, 2007
2:52 am

Bloop, bloop, BLOOP BLOOP BLOOOOMMMM! I’m so cool. I love irritating people, been doing it since the 4th grade. I dropped out in the 5th grade, so I could smoke weed 24/7. Kids love my bike! They lick the plug wires sometimes. I’m so cool. I gotta go, my mom’s calling from upstairs.

[Reply]

Hummer lover
May 2nd, 2007
11:02 am

What’s all the fuss about Hummers? There are plenty of other large SUV’s on the road that are just as big or just as bad for MPG. As a matter of fact, look at the MPG between an H3 and a Jeep liberty, barely a noticeable difference. Since when did people have the right to start judging a vehicles size all of a sudden. I don’t have a Hummer but I do own an FJ Cruiser, which is just as big and sucks premium fuel. Sometimes I use it to get wine at the market, other times I have two 15 ft kayaks on there; sometimes a few bikes or my boat. We all share the road with vehicles of all sizes. I don’t like semi trucks or Harleys, but they are part of life- or in your case, something to bitch about. And what’s the difference between a Hummer owner who drives 10 miles to work ever day compared the Prius driver who goes 80? Who’s really sucking down the gas? Big SUV’s, arguably safer, better in the snow, better for people with kayaks, bikes, boats, lots of kids and so on.
If your going to bitch about vehicles, stop centering on Hummer and please add my FJ as well as a few dozen other big SUV’s. And after that go after big boats and then big houses too. Might as well add jet liner vacation trips.

[Reply]

jakerlx
June 4th, 2007
2:53 pm

At least a Harley rider does not have time to talk on their cell phone, drink their Starbuck’s, play with their stereo (or favourite electronic device), smoke their cigarettes, and possibly yell at their kids before they drop them off at school.

BOTTOM LINE: If you drive a four wheel vehicle, you have more distractions. If you ride a Harley, you are more concerned about getting home to see your wife and family.

If you drive a hummer, stop whining and keep your eyes (and ears) on the road!

[Reply]

Dave
June 10th, 2007
4:37 am

Thanks for voicing opinions that I was beginning to think only I had.

I lived in Milwaukee (home of the toy for the fifty-year old infant) for ten years and, every time I complained about the outrageous noise assaults, I’d routinely get looks of disdain and withering comments about being a pansy.

I’m not an idiot and it’s insulting to have someone screaming at you (to be heard above the Harley din) that the decibel levels must be OK because you never see a Harley rider getting a noise violation ticket.

I’ve worked in very loud, industrial environments my entire career and very few processes (necessarily noisy) even come close to producing the ear-splitting cacophony of a full-throttled Harley Davidson engine.

I’m fed up with having to avoid places I used to enjoy (river-fronts, public parks, etc.) because packs of megalomaniacal, attention-starved pseudo-adults on inferior machinery refuse to behave like adults.

What ever became of common courtesy?

Thanks

Dave desRochers

[Reply]

David Connolly
June 29th, 2007
12:08 pm

Ban Stupid Exhausts

[Reply]

David Connolly
June 29th, 2007
12:08 pm

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/StupidExhausts/

[Reply]

Dave B.
June 30th, 2007
7:48 pm

Amen Dave! Common courtesy died long ago. It got run over by a gang of Harley riders.

The world would be better without those obnoxious beasts. I’m not sure if I’m talking about the bike or the people who ride them. ;) For me, Harley drivers fall into the same category as skate boarders. I’m sure there are some nice ones, but there are so many more idiots, I just throw the baby out with the bathwater. The bathwater is so stinking dirty, it killed the baby.

I had a Honda bike drive by me the other day, thing was as quiet as any car I ever heard. I wanted to pull over at the next intersection and hug the guy for driving a quiet and considerate bike.

[Reply]

Chich
July 25th, 2007
5:46 pm

I ride a Honda. I like it because it is quiet, quieter than most cars like someone said.
My bud, had to get a harley. And had to get the loud (and $$$) pipes. I can’t even ride with him now unless I am way behind or ahead. A few miniutes is about all I can handle of that racket.

Yeah it is all about the “look at me I have a harley” thing. In traffic you don’t hear them anyway until they are past you so whats the point? As bad a ‘professional’ truck drivers with their jake brakes.

[Reply]

My ears hurt
September 2nd, 2007
10:32 pm

A lot of you “loud-pipe” riders think you’re doing the world a favour by “toning it down” in the cities. There are hudreds of us living on rural highways (30/30 curves) that listen to at least 1 very loud motorcycle every 30 seconds go by in the summer. I used to love summer. I can’t wait till it snows. I wish the roads had snow and ice 12 months of the year!!!

[Reply]

Observation: Harley vs. Kawasaki threads - Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums
September 4th, 2007
8:41 am

[...] of stuff on the internet like this: 101 Reasons to Buy a Harley Hallucinations WING VS HOG Who’s the Bigger Asshat, the Harley Rider or the Hummer Driver? If you think people get upset on this forum, just do a search. Here is one of the nicer examples. [...]

MotorcycleSMACK.com
September 8th, 2007
12:59 pm

What is the best touring bike?…

There’s a pretty amusing post over at:
Who’s the Bigger Asshat, the Harley Rider or the Hummer Driver?

I laughed out loud at this:

It……

cat d.
November 25th, 2007
6:22 pm

I am a harley owner and never thaught that the noise would annoy all you assholes so much. Now I am going to get louder pipes for my bike to really piss you cock suckers off. Don’t get mad at us because your bitch mother wouldn’t let you have a motorcycle. Go hop in your volkswagon bug and rush to your ballet class you pussy no fun having bastards.

[Reply]

Dylan
November 29th, 2007
6:13 pm

Hi, I am 17 years old, got my motorcycles liscence, and bought a 1973 HARLEY DAVIDSON with drag pipes (the loudest i could get.) I bought this bike to piss you bare foot, tree hugging, mango suckin, skids off. You guys are so tough sitting in your armchair right now, step inside the nearest biker bar and say that…I might not be all educated like you…but i know a true asshole when i see one…a guy who is dissing the best culture on two wheels.These bikes helped provided you ballet slipper wearin skids with athing called FREEDOM. Comesay Harleys are loud to my face…I WILL MESS YOU UP

[Reply]

Dylan
November 29th, 2007
6:20 pm

oh, reading what you said, makes me want to go tear down the street rate now, set off some car alarms, and wake you ganja smokin hippies up! WAKEY WAKEY HERE COMES TO BOOGIE MAN O HIS BIG BAD HARLEY…HAHAHA..sleep with one eye open

[Reply]

little big man
November 30th, 2007
8:35 am

Dylan, your right on that man! Keep on loud bikin’. Enough said.

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Freedom and Shifting Gears
January 20th, 2008
9:31 am

Go Dylan. I find it hard to believe how you pompus suburban assholes believe you have the right to tell people how much noise they are allowed to make. Enjoy the Suburban/HGTV standard of life you’ve chosen, with your granola, yoga and Dr. Phil. But dont believe you have any understanding of what its like to live. I’ve got my Harley, and thats all I need.

[Reply]

cadillac
February 10th, 2008
6:42 pm

I think the genuine question is, Who’s the bigger asshat?; a.(The Harley Rider), b.(The Hummer Driver), or c.(Darren Barefoot). If you answered (c),(Darren Barefoot), congradulations!, you were correct. What a “stupid son of a bitch” that guy is. Get a life Darren!

[Reply]

darren
February 11th, 2008
2:07 am

Cadillac: You know, I don’t normally respond to trolls like yourself, but I’ll make an exception because I was so amused by your comment:

You spelled ‘congratulations’ wrong.

You might want to be more cautious in dishing out adjectives like ’stupid’. You might also want to review some basic rules of punctuation.

[Reply]

cadillac
Febru